Smash Bros. Brawl

Grønn Zebra: Link fra Wind Waker er bekreftet. Om du legger litt i det finner du en film på youtube der Twilight-Link sloss mot Wind Waker-Link på et skip (minner litt om skipet i Rainbow Ride) ute på det store tegnefilmhavet fra Wind Waker. Skulle gjerne funnet den selv, men youtube trøbler seg akkurat nå.

Buggz: Zero-Suit Samus sin Final Smash er å få Varia Suit'en tilbake. Men om det i seg selv er et angrep aner jeg ikke.

Redigert: Nuvel, kanskje ikke akkurat en film, men dog; Link VS Link ca. midt i montasjen.
 

Lodin

Der Waaaah
Greetings fellow Smash fans, it appears the onslaught brought about the roster revelation has finally come upon us. The next several weeks will be dark days laced with much poisonous emotions and the venom of hate and the bitterness of disappointment. This wave of hate and melancholy is another misfortunate circumstance of history repeating itself. My thread about the Melee roster leak showed exactly how we Smash fans reacted to the Melee roster over six years ago. However, I would not believe the reactions would escalate to this scale. It hurts me that the roster did not live up to most people’s expectations, however, it hurts me even more to see my fellow forum members stricken with the disease of what happens when the dreams of a fanboy are deferred. Hear me out and let these words of reason and of hope pave a path in the tunnel of bitterness and resentment.

Six years ago, many people were feeling the same emotions you are all feeling now. Disbelief, hate, disgust, sadness, and disappointment. How could rejects like Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Pichu get in over real Nintendo stars like Wario, Diddy Kong, and King Dedede? Surely, this roster was nothing more than a ruse for lolz by a few jokers. Even when reality set in, people still clung onto hope. There were two empty slots of the character selection screen, surely there were two more super hidden characters in Melee. Even myself, was taken in by this hope. Many people believed their character of choice to take up one of these two empty spots on the character selection screen. However, as history and reality would tell us, there were no more characters in Melee. People reluctantly accepted the demon roster, and looked to the brighter side of things, such as Ganondorf, Falco, and Mewtwo all being playable characters. When Melee finally landed in the hands on North American gamers, the roster was vindicated in the eyes of most people as seeing all of the massive improvements it had over the original. Many people also fell in love with characters that they did not even know about such as Marth and Roy, for some even Mr. Game & Watch (I myself was pleasantly surprised that he made it).

I believe there are several reasons why most people are disappointed with the 35-character roster. One is that the wait from Melee was over six years, whereas the wait from the original to Melee was less than three. Many people were expecting the kind of massive increase there was from the original to Melee to carry over to Brawl. Many people were also expecting that there would fair representation of Nintendo’s series. Here are the complaints I see the Brawl roster is getting. Star Fox getting three representatives when it is a series that shouldn’t have three in a roster of 35 due to it being a series with only five installments, and a massive decline in sales and popularity. Metroid getting stuck with only Samus again despite the massive resurrection the series it had since Melee’s release and Ridley himself being the most wanted newcomer among North American Smash fans. Mother getting two representatives despite being a series with only three installments (only one of which left Japan), and also declared over by its own creator (Itoi). Fire Emblem only getting two characters again, despite the series being much more popular and having fans all over the world when in contrast to prior to Melee when it was only a Japan-only series and only had fans in Japan for the most part. Popular retro characters such as Little Mac, Takamaru, Sukapon, and Mike Jones getting shafted for the likes of R.O.B., who is not much of surprise considering that he was an unlockable for Mario Kart DS. F-Zero being ignored in a big way, and being the only series from the original Smash Bros. (besides Yoshi which is a spin off series basically) without a second playable representative, despite it having spawned more games than Star Fox and Mother and as well as having a 50 episode anime. Series such as Custom Robo and Advance Wars (and Golden Sun as well) are also left without a playable representative, when Sakurai very well knows having a playable character for one of these two series would boosted the popularity and sales of the games of these series. Characters with quite a bit of popularity such as Mewtwo and Roy are cut, whereas Young Link gets to return (albeit under a different name). Mario losing a character from Melee, and not having a character to replace that loss, despite Mario not losing any popularity since Melee. The fact that only one new female character was added to Brawl (ZSS), and that there were more females added in the original (Samus and Jigglypuff) and Melee (Peach, Zelda, and Sheik), despite him hinting that he wanted more, and ironically enough, there are less female to male characters in Brawl than the previous two Smash games. The idea that the majority of the hidden characters can already be played in Melee. It is the combination of all of these grievances that have lead us to the massive pit of woes we are in right now.

Here are my three personal grievances with the Brawl roster. One is the exclusion of Ridley. Yes, I am a big Ridley fan. I have longed to play as Ridley ever since I saw the Melee opening back in May of 2001. I have been a fan of Ridley dating back all the way to 1994, when I played Super Metroid for the first time. He was just this awesome dragon-creature, and when I saw that he actually won in Super Metroid’s intro, it was something completely new to me. Up til that point, I always believed that the character you played as would always defeat the boss you are fighting, but Ridley won (keep in mind I was seven years old at the time, and up til that point my game library consisted mostly of platformers). Super Metroid was just so different from anything that I ever played, that I instantly fell in love with it, and I have been a big Metroid fan ever since. After seeing Ridley in the Melee intro, I was convinced he would be a playable character, and that he would be used to promote the upcoming Metroid game on the GameCube. However, reality would dictate that Metroid did not have the popularity yet to warrant another playable character. After the Melee roster was revealed, I kept hope that Ridley would be a playable character in the next Smash Bros. Ridley’s popularity got a huge boost between those years thanks to the massive resurrection that the Metroid series got, and also due to a new generation of gamers being able to see the awesome that was Ridley. Support for Ridley to enter as a playable character in the next Smash Bros. skyrocketed. Pretty soon he was the most requested character for Brawl, second only to Sonic. It was due to the massive resurrection and new found popularity of the Metroid series as well as Ridley’s massive popularity that made me confident that Brawl would be Ridley’s time. Unfortunately, with the leak of the Brawl roster, it seems Metroid is getting the shaft yet again. I am hoping that the next development team for Smash Bros. 4 realizes their error of making Ridley only a boss, and decide to make him a playable character in the next Smash Bros.

Another grievance I have with the roster is one that many people will probably disagree with me on. I am disappointed that Roy did not return as a playable character. Its true that Roy got into Melee as a playable character in order to advertise the upcoming Fire Emblem: Sword of Seals for the Game Boy Advance, which was released more than four months after Melee’s Japanese release. Roy was one of the two characters that I mained in Melee (the other being Samus). When I first saw Marth and Roy in the Melee roster leak, I did not really have an opinion of them, since I did not know them. I tried Marth first, but I did not really like using him (I really tried to get into Mr. Game & Watch but I just found him a bit too weak). I tried Roy and I liked what how he played. He had good knock-back, average speed and average weight, as well some nice fire effects going on. Slowly, I would use Roy more and more and would learn how to utilize all of his moves. Pretty soon, I mained him along with Samus. However, Roy’s influence on me did not stop there, Roy also made me get interested in the Fire Emblem series. Once I picked up a Fire Emblem game for the first time, I instantly fell in love with it. Fire Emblem would later become one of my favorite series ever. If it had not been for Roy, I probably would have never have picked up a Fire Emblem game, as well as many other people. I understand that Roy’s purpose was mainly as an advertisement, however, he holds a special place in my heart for getting me into what is arguably one of Nintendo’s best series. I thought a lot of the hate he got was unfair, and if he had been a top-tier character in Melee, he would probably have done a Sheik in which, although they are no longer important characters in their respective series, they get to return due to their popularity among Smash fans. I think Sakurai’s team should have at least have had used Eliwood as a proper replacement to Roy. However, it seems that Fire Emblem only has Marth and Ike representing it. I hope Roy returns as a playable character in the next Smash, and I will valiantly support him no matter what anybody says.

My third and final grievance with the Brawl roster is how there is hardly any surprise to it. There are only four unknown newcomers (one of which being Young Link with a new name and moveset). I think Sakurai should have instead opted to make most of the already revealed newcomers hidden and should have never showed them on the Dojo to begin with. I also think he should have made most of the hidden veterans such as Captain Falcon, Ness, Marth, and Mr. Game & Watch, starting characters. Also no new active Nintendo series made up one of the hidden character slots. I feel that Advance Wars and Custom Robo are long overdue for a playable representative, and that a playable representative for one of those two series would help introduce many more people to those two series.

With my grievances expressed, allow me to show you the good news in this. Brawl’s roster is basically what people dreamed Melee’s roster to be. Many people were expecting Melee’s roster to be in the late 20's, perhaps going to the early 30's. Many of the fan-favorites of that failed to get in Melee have made it into Brawl. Wario, Pit, King Dedede, Meta Knight, Diddy Kong, Pokemon Trainer (at least in Japan), and Wolf were all highly requested characters for Melee that have made it into Brawl as playable characters. Brawl’s roster has basically fulfilled the wishlists of Melee’s roster, and I feel that Smash 4's roster will be the same. Characters such as Krystal and Ridley I think will be shoe-ins for Smash Bros. 4. However, there are some characters who due to their failure to get into the Brawl roster will probably never get in as a playable character in a future Smash Bros. game. I like to call these “now or never” characters. Examples of three “now or never” characters that succeeded into getting Brawl are Lucario, Ike, and Toon Link. These characters are at the height of their popularity due to the acclaim of their games which were released recently. Characters that were very popular prior to Melee but were no-where near as requested for Brawl were Skull Kid, Banjo-Kazooie, Toad, and Waluigi. There is something that I would like to call Skull Kid Syndrome. Skull Kid Syndrome is the term I use to describe a character whose best chances for getting into a Smash Bros. game as a playable character failed, and for the following game have less popularity and a lesser chance of getting in due to being a one-shot character. Popular Brawl characters that looks to get Skull Kid Syndrome for Smash Bros. 4 include Midna, Micaiah, Dark Samus, and Isaac (unless he is made into the main protagonist of Golden Sun 3). Since it is likely that these characters will probably never star in another game, their chances of ever getting into the Smash Bros. series as playable characters have come and gone. I am sorry, but this is a harsh reality. However, I do have some good news for Masked Boy fans. Since Ness and Lucas are both Psychic-users, it is likely that if a third character is decided for the next Smash Bros. they will likely look into a more unique and important character (not simply another party member like Poo, Kumatora, or Jeff), both of which the Masked Boy fits. Also, if Mother 3 gets released internationally in some form as a result of Lucas’s inclusion in Brawl, this will make Masked Boy known to even more fans, and thus making his chances of entering as a playable character for Smash Bros. 4 higher than Brawl possibly. I have some other ideas on how other characters chances will be improved or decreased over the course of the next several years, though I feel I am going a bit off track with this discussion of Smash Bros. 4.

As many of you may or may not know, a lot of characters and features that were in Brawl were originally intended for Melee. Lucas was originally intended to replace Ness, however, due to the cancellation of EarthBound 64, Ness returned. Sonic and Snake were both supposed to be in Melee, however, the game would have had to been delayed in order to make the legal arrangements and movesets for both of their inclusions. Stuff such as stickers and Assist Trophies were also both originally planned for Melee. Sakurai also originally intended to make Adventure Mode in Melee a full-fledged game, but was forced by Miyamoto to instead focus on the multiplayer aspects of the game. To sum it all up, Brawl is basically what Melee was supposed to be.

Now on for my next point of discussion. Contrary, to popular belief, most of Brawl’s roster was decided by the fans. Character such as Sheik, Ness, and Falco probably would not have returned if it had not been for their massive popularity in Melee (especially in the case of Sheik). If Mewtwo and Roy had been top-tier characters there would have been a really good chance that both would have returned in Brawl as playable characters. Sakurai did not want to upset the hard-core gamers who main these characters, so he made them return in Brawl and also gave some new moveset (as in the case of Falco and Ness). He finally put in long-requested characters such as Wario, Meta Knight, and King Dedede. He even put in some of the more hardcore choices such as Pit and Pokemon Trainer. He even managed to put in some recently popular characters such as Captain Olimar, Ike, and Lucario. There is a chance that Sonic would not have made it into Brawl had it not been for the massive support he had among Western Smash fans. However, Sakurai’s listening to the fans was also a double-edged sword. Clones were hated by the Smash fanbase. Contrary to popular belief the amount of clones in Melee was not due to there being a time constraint, but rather they had some extra time to do it (Sakurai even mentioned in on the Japanese poll on the old Brawl site that he unintentionally reached 26 characters in Melee). Sakurai was either going to add one more non-clone character to Melee, or six clones, and he thought that Smash fans would enjoy the six clones more. I think the main grievance people had with clones were the choices, such as Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Pichu. Other than that, I don’t think anyone would have objected if we got five clones in Brawl’s roster in conjunction with the 35 non-clone characters. It is for this reason (the hatred of clones), that I think Sakurai did not add any more characters with the extra delay time (NyaseNya reported on the 35 character number in mid-November, two months would be more than enough time to add a handful of clones). So basically in a way, we are partly responsible for the 35 character roster.

As for the people saying that they are cancelling getting Brawl as a result of the 35 character roster, please don’t dismiss Brawl until you have played it. There were many people who felt the same way about Melee’s roster when it was revealed. However, the main game more than made up for the “sub-par” roster in many people eyes, and Melee became much more popular than its earlier installment. We are getting online, new gameplay mechanics (Final Smashes and Assist Trophies), a Stage Creator (which even allows you to trade them online, offering massive replay value), and an Adventure Mode that could stand alone as its own game (though I have a really strong feeling that the SSE is the reason why we ended up with a 35-character roster and Ridley and Mewtwo not being playable). Brawl smokes Melee in terms of content hands-down. I, too think much of the roster decisions were poorly conceived, however, I will reserve judgement on Brawl until I play it, much like everyone else should. I really wish Ridley was in as a playable character (looks like I am going to have to wait another half-decade in order to play as him), and I really wish Roy returned as a playable character, however, I am going to play Brawl for what it is, and hope that it blows away Melee, much like Melee blew away the original.

Six years was a long time. I went through a lot of hell between these six years, and I sure most of you have as well. Nearly every day that went by since Brawl was announced that I was thinking about Brawl’s potential roster, and now that we finally know it I am a tad disappointed. I spent hours upon hours writing massive analyses for characters that might make up our roster. Much of my predictions came true, however, some of them didn’t (such as Mewtwo returning). I am a bit happy that I had a hand in the Brawl roster leak. As many of you may or may not know, I was the first one to put together the 35-character roster based off of what NyaseNya, ChaosZero, Serebii, and ShadowXOR said after seeing correlations between what they were saying. I put most of the roster together as early as mid-December, with only two or three spots being unknown to me. Had my list not been submitted to Reno and MarkMan, we would probably still have been speculating who made up the 35 character roster leading up to the eventual roster leak. I think putting together the roster so early did both harm and good. It did harm in that it made some people abandon their dreams of their favorite character being playable as early as last week, and it did good by giving Smash fans an idea on what to expect and help better cope with it. It will be interesting years from now to see myself writing my own username in the history of the Brawl roster leak when Smash Bros. 4 is only a month from release. Other than that, I am sorry for all of you who are deeply disappointed in the roster, and I hope that Sakurai’s team begins drawing up plans for characters in Smash 4 soon after Brawl is released, that way there will be a possibility of there being 50+ character roster in that game.

That ends this very long essay on my thoughts on the Brawl roster. I am hoping that you have read the points that I brought up and I hope what I wrote has made you feel better about Brawl. As for me? When I came to SmashBoards, I said I came here primarily to analyze Brawl’s potential roster. Now that Brawl’s roster has been unveiled, there would be little sense for Brawl potential roster analyst such as myself staying, right? I have long contemplated whether to leave SmashBoards after the reveal of the roster. Since both Ridley and Roy did not make it, there is no board really for me. However, I might decide to stick around for two things. One would be that there are a lot of friends that I have made on SmashBoards and I think they might be disappointed if I left. Two, I feel as though I failed the Knights of Elibe (a Roy fan group here on SmashBoards) due to Roy no longer being a playable character (though this was really out of my control, I do feel a guilt that I did not do enough to change people’s opinion on Roy even though I am the leader of the organization). I might stick around to slowly change people’s hearts and minds on Roy, and maybe he might become a highly requested character to return by the time Smash Bros. 4 comes out. However, I am not sure whether the latter is attainable goal, though I will try my best. People of SmashBoards it was a fun time speculating the roster. I hope many of you will get over your disappointment once you all get to play Brawl.

I wish for peace to be with all of you, and thank you very much for reading my thoughts on the Brawl roster.
 
De siste to avsnittene var teite. Dessuten, hvem bryr seg vel om kloner som Dr. Mario, Roy og Pichu når v heller får nye unike karakterer? Jeg gledet meg ikke mindre av å se hvem som blir med, i allefall. Han har kanskje et poeng med Ridley, men jeg bryr meg ikke så mye.
 

Lodin

Der Waaaah
Hvis det er en ting som er litt bleh så må det være alle klonene. Fox, Falco og Wolf har altså akkurat samme moveset og tilogmed final smash.
Har i det hele tatt Star Wolf folka Landmaster-tankser?

Men så kommer jeg på at dette er nerdraging og det er bedre å slappe av med et bilde av de to kapteinene.

^_^
 

Tutankoopa

Ole (オーレ)
Nei, jeg har ikke lyst å være blant alle fjottene der ute som bærer og syter seg akkurat nå. Over 35 karakterer ville vært veldig unødvendig, og jeg syntes vi har sett mange nye, smarte karakterer blant disse.

Spoiler om den ekte karakterskjermen: Okeida, skal innrømme en ting. Kunne i ROB(som ser kul ut) tatt over Game and Watch's rolle som den halveis diffuse retrokarakteren
 

Tutankoopa

Ole (オーレ)
Oh, nydelig :D De har til og med fått med de fantastiske bombe-animasjonene. Knallbra!
 
SITAT(rulleguru @ 30.01.08, 20.50) 100735
Synes egentlig det var greit med Fox og Falco i Melee. Selv om alle moves var like var de fortsatt ganske forskjellige å spille.
[/b]
Ja, forskjellen var at Falco bare var mye bedre. Jeg hatet det. Hva var poenget med å ha to karakterer som har helt like moves, hvor den eneste forskjellen er at han andre er litt mer gimp, det er jo det man har handicap for.
Håpet på å slippe dette nå, det hadde vært uendelig mye tøffere om det faktisk VAR samme karater, og at de forskjellige fargene heller var Fox/Falco/Wolf, enn Orginal/rød/grønn osv.

Men koz blir det
 
Tja, jeg er ganske sikker på at noen foretrekker Fox. Litt vanskeligere å spille kanskje, men behersker du den ekstreme hurtigheten tror jeg det er en ypperlig karakter.
 
Falco er raskere. Slår hardere, hopper høyere og free faller fortere. Men ja, Fox er nok bedre.
Jeg har klokket en del dager kun på Fox før jeg bytta til Falco, akkurat dette mener jeg å ha greie på.

At noen foretrekker Fox er vel ganske irrelevant, er jo folk som liker avføring i kjeften, betyr ikke at det er on par med mat. Tingen er at det bare er tull å påstå at Fox er like god som Falco, samme hvordan man ser på det.

Falco er bedre, setter du deg ned og prøver, skjønner du det fort.
 
Jeg har da aldri sagt Fox er bedre, jeg spiller stort sett Falco selv.

Men at Falco er raskere enn Fox er jo ren løgn. Fox er raskere og skyter fortere. Falco hopper høyere, er sterkere og tåler mer.

Hvis du fortsatt mener Falco er raskere enn Fox får du klokke noen timer til.
 
Altså. Han løper sikkert veldig mye fortere, det er helt greit. Men du løper så og si aldri i en skikkelig ssbm match (ja Nicholas, man kan ha med items), når jeg mener rask snakker jeg om combo, jump/fall-speed og recovery time. Lite vits å løpe med Falco/Fox når man wavedasher fortere uansett.
 
SITAT(Eivind @ 01.02.08, 13.53) 101036
Falco er raskere. Slår hardere, hopper høyere og free faller fortere. Men ja, Fox er nok bedre.
Jeg har klokket en del dager kun på Fox før jeg bytta til Falco, akkurat dette mener jeg å ha greie på.

At noen foretrekker Fox er vel ganske irrelevant, er jo folk som liker avføring i kjeften, betyr ikke at det er on par med mat. Tingen er at det bare er tull å påstå at Fox er like god som Falco, samme hvordan man ser på det.

Falco er bedre, setter du deg ned og prøver, skjønner du det fort.

[/b]
:hæ:
 
Fox er en av spillets tre beste karakterer; Shiek og Marth. Når det kommer til turneringer o.l blant alle de "proffe", så er Fox en av de mest vanlige å spille. Rett og det fordi han er så utrolig kjapp og man kan spike så utrolig lett med han, i tillegg til at han er enkel å holde oppe combos med. Ta en titt på noen videoer av de "beste" rundtom på nettet, så forstår du nok. :<

Roy er kraftigere enn Marth, men Marth er mye bedre uansett.

Men hvis man spiller på et helt vanlig nivå, på gøy, mot noen som er helt gjennomsnits, så er vel kanskje Falco bedre ja.


Edit: Err, feil bruker. <.< Skrevet av Calath.